Belgian shotgun proof marks. Cylinder and full with 2 ½ .

• Belgian shotgun proof marks. It is Belgium made but that is about all I know. Jun 21, 2012 · The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. Are they just inspector stamps or something else. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and other European countries), most U. BELGIAN DOUBLE BARREL PERCUSSION LOCK SHOTGUN, 12 BORE A finely made double-barrel, percussion-lock shotgun bearing proof marks from the Belgian proofing house at Liege. This is a 12 gauge 2 3/4 Jul 24, 2008 · Hi,(sorry for my english) i have double barrel shotgun , i know absolutely nothing about it, only basic info - i know something about belgium barrels marked- ELG with crown, but nothing else. The following information comes from The Book of the Pistol and Revolver by Hugh B. The Proofing of Firearms, until then not formally regulated, was then aligned with the rules imposed by Napoleon’s decree of 14th December 1810. Being American, I would WAG the "3 D. First pic is Belgian Proof? Which I think is this Nitro Superior Proof?? Other pictures of other marks Last pic I've covered out the serial number. 410 DOUBLE BARREL SHOTGUN. This one is made by the British W. Nov 10, 2009 · * over J - Inspector's mark for Pierre Neuprez who inspected guns from 1930 t0 1968. Feb 17, 2024 · When identifying old double barrel shotguns, look for specific features such as external hammers, barrel length, checkering patterns, and proof marks on the firearm. This is a reference of some of the most common proof marks that are found on firearms. PROOF MARKS The proof marks shown below will assist in determining nationality of manufacturers when no other markings are evident. The serial number on barrel matches receiver. 18. Dec 8, 2021 · Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. The intertwined E and L stand for ÉPREUVE LIÉGE - Liége Proof House. Belgium, on the other hand, is a noun that directly refers to the nation-state located in Western Europe. What I (think) know so far is: - proof house was Liège (ELG stamp) - was made in Belgium - 12 gauge, 70mm (2 3/4" shell) chamber - says "goverment tested for smokeless powder" on top of barrels - nitro proof barrels Questions Dec 25, 2024 · Belgium has a rich history of firearm manufacturing, producing high-quality guns for centuries. Jan 6, 2013 · Hello everyone, I have a shotgun and have been reading the previous posts on these W. Oct 23, 2024 · Top to bottom The barrel weighed . The 12-70 in the stylized horseshoe designates a 12 bore X 70mm chamber. Do you have a picture of the whole gun. Sep 14, 2011 · Pictures of the proof marks would help to at least identify where the gun was sold. The stamp that looks somewhat like a hammer is Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service. Jun 29, 2015 · International Proof MarksLeverage SEO-optimized Flipbooks, powerful backlinks, and multimedia content to professionally showcase your products and significantly increase your reach. Belgian gunmaking boasts a rich tradition, with numerous workshops producing firearms for both the military and civilian markets for centuries. For corroboration, cross-reference with the proof house controllers' mark. 1880s12 gauge, walnut stock with a checkered wrist and forestock, butt plate marked "PARKER/BROTHERS," back lock marked "W. Richards double barrel guns. Liege, Belgium: A single letter, either Roman or Greek, upper or lower case, underlined or not. Nov 5, 2023 · Shotgun Proof Marks: What You Need to Know Before Blasting Away! 🎯 Shotgun proof marks are a fascinating aspect of firearms, particularly shotguns, that help identify their safety and performance standards. The oval cartouche with star and ELG is the proof stamp of the Liége Proof house - Épreuve Liége. OG, that gold leaf on the top rib belongs there, it probably had the gun maker or the retailer's name on the missing or worn off part. PrOOF mark CirCa PrOOF hOuse tYPe OF PrOOF and gun since 1891 Vienna provisional proof for multi barrel guns Jul 4, 2020 · Collectors who spend enough time around firearms will often notice that the guns are littered with a variety of odd markings, letters, and other stamps that seem like some sort of secret code language from another world. From my measurements and checking I believe it is a 24 Gauge. I measured the bore with my dial calipers and the chamber as well. It looks like the gun is proofed for black Apr 21, 2014 · The table shows the description, dates used, and the proof marks, e,g, The Perron, ELG’s (encircled with and without the crown on top), nitro or powder (?) proof marks, PV (with the lion), etc. These allow a person to trace its history, what its proofed for and what repairs were done and by who. From my browsing, it seems like I have a Belgian piece, judging by the two biggest proof marks. Belgian cuisine is world-famous, particularly for its chocolate, beer, and waffles. The serial numbers on the receiver, barrels and forearm match (4501) and the top of the barrels read "W Richards London Laminated Steel". (most sales were in the 1930s) This type of shotgun was sold by both sears and eatons and a host of other stores primarily in Canada. Nov 10, 2021 · IF there is any maker's marks it'll be on the top of the top barrel or sides of the receiver. These small engraved symbols or stamps found on shotgun barrels provide essential information about the gun's manufacturing and quality control process. I have pictures of the information Jan 22, 2013 · The ELG and Star in the oval is a British proof mark used from 1811 to 1892 for the Liege proof house. Apr 2, 2017 · What I can tell you is that it has Belgian proof marks, Liege. W. Captured weapons from major wars occasionally show two different nationalities of proof marks. The major countries which either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the U. Below are some photographs of the proof marks. Dec 27, 2024 · Conclusion: A Journey of Discovery Identifying old Belgian gun makers' marks is a rewarding pursuit that combines historical research, detective work, and a passion for antique firearms. The little decorative column symbol for 'view' - a Proof House term which means 'inspection' is the Peronne - a May 17, 2008 · Reading my Belgian SxS shotgun proofs The Harley Nolden Memorial Institute for Firearms Research Aug 5, 2023 · The 12-70 in an Omega would indicate the gun is chambered for 12ga 70mm - 2 3/4" length shells. The link also has the Belgian date codes, controllers of proof codes, and Belgian date codes cursive. This is a none ejector double trigger with fixed choke 28 1/8 th barrels. Info says they changed to a "flat knob" pistol grip in 1967. Oct 22, 2021 · The gun is not Belgian. I know alot of guns (at least long guns maybe pistols, too) were assembled as, or modified to, flintlock to send to Africa. . But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can’t get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can’t find the inspectors mark. As with so many shotguns like this the Belgian proof stamps are about the only clue as to origin. Mar 2, 2021 · Take a look at the barrel proofing process and proof marks from Europe to America and why it matters to shotguns and firearms. It is most likely a 'trade gun' that could be marked with any name. there is another mark in diamond or something like that- 16C. This is acceptable since the gun was proofed in a national proof house after original manufacture and again when the gun was exported to a different country as a military acquisition. Belgium is a developed country with an advanced high-income economy. The second mark down is the Liege perron used on, among other guns, on breechloading shotguns and Flobert guns. Nov 23, 2010 · With that post-1893 proof mark it could well be a gun put together for one of the Belgian colonies. You can confirm this by looking at the bottom of the barrels under the forearm for Belgian proof marks which consists of the letters "ELG" in an oval with a crown over that. Given it's a muzzle loader the 17 doesn't denote choke size, it's cylinder bored. Jan 30, 2021 · Checkering is a bit worn. I am attaching pictures of the markings under the barrel. 25" barrel, solid rib, metal and wood ramrod, double exposed hammers and triggers, hardwood stock with scratches, metal butt plate, action good Proof Marks - Free download as PDF File (. Smokeless powder proof of military rifles until 1903, thereafter indicates nitro proof for all types of arms. " mark as being some sort of load (three drams powder) - but the letters may very well be a French abbreviation. 1810 -> Liege Black powder proof for rifles and shotguns. Sep 21, 2018 · This could easily be put in whats that gun. 6 days ago · Belgium is an area of 11,799 square miles. I have just recently acquired this old double barreled Side by Side, hammer shotgun. barrel, octagonal breech-section with Belgian proofs, solid rounded top-tang, military-style lock stamped Jan 20, 2023 · There should be the provisional proof, the mark of the controller, and a final proof. Applies primarily to guns made outside the U. I thought about it but passed. On top of that, Firearms Guide is also presenting South American manufacturers and their Gun Codes, Proof Marks, Stamps and Crests. It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a “date letter” as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of the period of Feb 3, 2014 · belgian proof marks General Discussions about Other Fine Doubles Feb 3, 2014 · belgian proof marks General Discussions about Other Fine Doubles Jul 21, 2023 · These gun makers and proof houses are from Austria, England, France, Germany, Belgium, Italy, Spain and many other European countries. " "People don't want to hear your opinion, they want to hear their opinion coming out of your mouth" o|||||o Mesquite, Emmit, HerrZnk and 3 others Mar 27, 2013 · I take it the gun manufacturer has long since gone out of business? The Belgium proof house should not have and maybe you can contact them with the barrel marks unless we have some Belgium readers that can answer your questions. - 2 1/2, which I believe indicates 2 1/2 inch cartridges. I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance with twentieth century ones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. 6/184. PV with the crown over would mean it was manufactured in 1958. " A LARGE 6-BORE FLINTLOCK SINGLE-SHOT MUSKET SIGNED 'G. Jun 11, 2024 · Belgium has a rich history, culture, and monarchy dating back to the 10th century. ', no visible serial number, Belgian, circa 1800, with brushed bright round heavy 36in. If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. Pre-1850 European firearms oftentimes do not exhibit any commercial proof marks and, with the exception of an occasional barrel address, they represent the single hardest category of firearms one can research properly. manufacturers identifying marks, more commonly referred to as Proof Marks, Arsenal or Inspector Marks Nov 10, 2023 · Yes that proof mark is Belgium, used from 1810 until about 1853. The thirty-nine miles of Belgian coast are washed by the North Sea; 896 miles of the land frontier border the Netherlands, Germany, Luxembourg, and France. Bottom photo: ELG under crown is the final black powder proof. Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks A reader has asked me to say something about Belgian proof marks. 410 Side by Side double barrel shotgun with hold open top lever opening. C. I am not sure what the other marks reflect. Mar 9, 2017 · Dear Technoid, I have a Belgium Browning 20 gauge. (initial period only) RICHARDS were made in Belgium buy the large maker named Henri Pieper and later known as Anciens Establissment Pieper. Joseph FRAIKIN (1908 - 1946) was at the origin of the creation of C. This is no assurance however, that all components of the guns where made in Germany, The gun making center in Liege in Belgium was known for the good quality of their shotgun barrels that were used by gun makers in other countries. Fourteen countries are C. Some proof marks are the normal Belgian stuff for mid 1800's. If > 3% less now (from honing or exterior filing) it is considered out of proof lettre annale greek delta = 1951 Inspector's mark Smokeless powder proof (Stylized lion over PV = poudre vive) Belgian Proof House (Banc D'Epreuves de Liege) mark 16g with 70 mm = 2 3/4" chamber Jul 26, 2021 · The crowned oval with ELG and star inside is the final proof, post 1893. I. Sep 23, 2010 · I have a vintage double barrel that I have a few questions about. When speaking about individuals from this country, we refer to them as Belgian citizens or simply Belgians. L. There are two inspectors marks, Star over X and star over Y I don't see any chamber length, choke or bore diameter markings, barrel weight or a nitro proof. ANTIQUE BELGIUM DOUBLE BARREL SHOTGUN, PRE 1853Antique Side by Side Percussion muzzle load shotgun having the 1810-1853 Liege, Belgium proof mark at barrel underside, likely Civil War use, 12 gauge, 34. I would love to know the maker (if Feb 25, 2018 · Proof marks are Belgian. The barrel is marked with several stamps, among them the following, that indicate it as having been made and tested in Belgium: The crowned ELG mark The Le Perron inspection stamp The provisional proof stamp W Apr 19, 2008 · If SuperXOne studied Belgian proof marks he would know that the mark "PV" means that the barrel in question was designed, built and proof tested with smokeless powder. I received it from my dad as my first shotgun back in the late 60's. The smaller mark is the inspector's mark or signature. Captured weapons from major wars occasionally show two different nationalities of proofmarks. May 27, 2007 · It has what I think are standard proof marks for a Belgian guild gun: the crowned oval enclosing the letters "ELG" and a star; a rampant lion over the letters "P. These shotguns were imported into America in large quantities. Apr 13, 2009 · Markings: 1kg 489 = the barrel weight the standing lion over PV = smokeless powder proof mark 18. Dumoulin &Cie Liege, It has external hammers and 30 inch Steel barrels. Most of the The document provides a comprehensive overview of Belgian proof marks, detailing their descriptions, dates of use, and specific applications for various firearms. One barrel is further labeled "1 (?) Kg 488". Aug 21, 2023 · For such a small country, Belgium has been a major European battleground over the centuries. This guide delves into the world of old Belgian gun makers' marks, helping you decipher those often-cryptic stamps and understand the history behind them Oct 27, 2010 · Guns with them name W. I have never seen so many markings on a shotgun. This journey of U. Jan 30, 2017 · Hello guys, Could you please help decode proof marks on the photos? Especially BB with start above and this strange (i do not know how to call that) cross? Thanks. Can be without The C. A brand new made and proofed yesterday Belgian made muzzle loader will have that same ELG oval mark of definitive proof. There are more castles per meter in Belgium than anywhere else in the world. The inspectors mark is still an secret so the list here should be regarded as uncertain, but it can in some Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. Has a Greener crossbolt. Cylinder and full with 2 ½ Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. The country boasts over 1,500 beer varieties, and its brewing traditions have been recognized by UNESCO as Intangible Cultural Heritage. Rampant lion over PV - Voluntary smokless powder proof Stylized ELG (script) - Proof mark of Liege, Belgium proof house The Perron - indicates Belgium proof 16 over C in upturned square - 16ga choked barrel Crown over ELG star - Final black bowder proof. Agreed that this one is perhaps too far gone to be returned to shooting condition and fired. You will be required to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. Buttstock has a " round knob" pistol grip and a FN buttplate. I can identify most of the marks based on the information on the web but have not been able to find out what the two circled in red mean. Feb 4, 2025 · Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. The inspectors mark is still an secret so the list here should be regarded as uncertain, but it can in some Captured weapons from major wars occasionally show two different nationalities of proof marks. The birth of the C. Dec 8, 2021 · I have my granddad’s old double barrel shotgun for a couple of months. He has had it for about 20 years and is not too sure where it came from. You might want to print out the list of German proof marks that follows for reference when you encounter a German gun. Aug 5, 2022 · This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. I am trying to find out a bit about it like year of manufacture and is it safe to use normal 12G shells and some info on the choke. Oct 14, 2003 · Near the butt is a brass clam shell which I assume opens to reveal a compartment for holding extra caps. Jul 8, 2010 · I recognize a Perron "view" proofmark/stamp, and the post-1924 Nitro-Proof mark, but none of the other marks - Sorry. 1810 - 1853 Liege Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. Feb 23, 2003 · ELG, & PV Belgian proof mark and a few others. the provided pictures contain all the markings on the gun Your help is much appreciated. Aug 14, 2019 · The only marks I can see on the photos (I'll have the gun in about a week time) are (starting from breech area) number 18, number 20. pdf), Text File (. Most of the Nov 12, 2020 · Your shotgun does have Belgian proof mark from the Proof House at Liege for Muzzle Loading Black Powder. Oct 20, 2022 · I have an old single barrel 18 mm shotgun that I would appreciate your comments on. The Crown over "R" was used on rifled barrels of Flobert rifles, revolvers, Flobert top break pistols, muzzleloading handguns and long guns. If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. The Book of the Pistol and Revolver is also available to purchase in print. "To anger a conservative, lie to him. gene18@charter. Information courtesy of The Blue Book of Gun Values by S. Can you help me determine what the choke may be? Thank you, Wylie Dear Wylie, On the left hand side of the barrels' monobloc near the ejectors, you will see…. Dec 16, 2009 · What if there are two markings on the barrels of a shotgun? Mine has Choke 17. Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. You might see if you can find any collector's of the shotgun and perhaps they would know what shells are safe to fire. Iconic landmarks like The Comic Strip Route pay homage to Belgium’s greatest claims to fame, such as Tintin and The Smurfs. Jun 13, 2014 · Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks A reader has asked me to say something about Belgian proof marks. 1900 Belgian 12 gauge bore would be 18. Sep 5, 2011 · Need some help from a Belgian A5 expert! I've located an A5 16 ga. " " Fried bologna sandwiches are proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. Explore unique attractions like Manneken Pis & Atomium or discover natural wonders such as the Ardennes Forest & Belgian Coast. That would fit with finding it in Istambul, and quite a lot of colonial guns were made in Belgium, including past the decline of muzzleloading in Europe and North America. Apr 19, 2023 · Both German [post 1891] and Belgian ]post the same date] proof marks are both multiple and clearly stamped, usually at the breech end of the gun in question. About the closest you'll come on it's age is from the 1850's to 1870's when cartridge firing Jul 5, 2021 · Hello I need help identifying the maker of this old double barrel side-level shotgun that is evidently made in belgium. To determine the age and origin of the shotgun, research the manufacturer’s markings, consult firearm catalogs, or seek the expertise of a qualified gun appraiser. 3 on each barrel = barrel diameter in mm Horse shoe with 12. Feb 11, 2005 · "Choke"means that it is a smooth bore with a choke. RICHARDS DOUBLE-BARREL SHOTGUN Belgium,C. Pollard. It is made in Belgium. All markings are on both barrels. Proof & Date Codes Proof Date Codes Luger Proof/Acceptance Marks WW2 Small Arms Identification Gallery Stara Proof & Date Codes Star Firearms: Dating your Star Pistol with Proofmarks West Hurley Thompson Serial Number Data West Hurley Thompson Serial Number Data - Thompson Collector Groups - Information and Reference Jun 21, 2017 · Other than the provisional proof mark that came into use around 1853 and the final proof was changed in 1891 to have a crown over the oval there is no other mark on it to give you an age. manufacturers voluntarily proof their firearms with a specifed style of proofmark (i. Trying to find info, such how old, on this gun. Mar 18, 2011 · Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. The usual c. This is a picture of the proof marks on the barrel it is a Bayard. These gun makers and proof houses are from Austria, England, France, Germany, Belgium, Italy, Spain and many other European countries. Sample photos of their layouts are at the bottom of the page. Feb 15, 2020 · I am trying to identify an antique Belgian double barrel shotgun. 4 mm = . Nov 19, 2009 · I just recieved a double barrel shotgun, It is marked F. The Perron (tower) indicates provisional blackpowder proof even on guns later voluntary proved with smokeless powder; which are marked with a Lion over PV. The MZ could be the proof for a choke bored rifle, but it's usually pictured as MS super-imposed. s. I purchased this gun in the former soviet Nov 30, 2022 · Gear Reading proof marks on guns, serial numbers and how to re-proof a gun Would you like to speak to our readers? We offer sponsored articles and advertising to put you in front of our audience. PV mark would mean barrels are nitro proof and not laminate or damascus. People are too quick to label them. I don't have any information on inspectors marks pre dating 1910. Both my French and Belgian versions fire well, so you should be able to enjoy shooting yours after inspection to assure that the gun is still sound. The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. I'd say the gun dates from 1893 to 1898. Pre-1850 European firearms oftentimes do not exhibit any commercial PROOF MARKS. I can also see some May 22, 2021 · EL:G and EL are Belgium proof marks " I don't wish death on anyone, but I will smile when I read some obituaries. Apr 15, 2007 · Left side stamped (left to right) '* Special Steel-16 Gauge-Shells 23/4"', '1 Kg 000', a marking that looks like the 'pye' symbol, '*B', the Belgian proof mark for 'nitro proof', the Belgian proof mark for 'definitive black powder proof', and a marking that looks like the 'omega' symbol with the numbers '16-70' in the center. Find out more. in pristine condition, definitely bearing only Belgian origin markings, but there is a dilemna. By understanding Belgian proof marks and the various forms of maker's marks, collectors can gain a deeper appreciation for the rich history and craftsmanship of these fascinating weapons. txt) or read online for free. Mar 3, 2005 · My understanding is that one can discern the date a gun was proved by knowing what inspector's marks were used during which years, but that the Belgian proof house keeps these marks confidential. the interlocked ©WPa synonymous with the Winchester trademark Jul 3, 2014 · The table shows the description, dates used, and the proof marks, e,g, The Perron, ELG’s (encircled with and without the crown on top), nitro or powder (?) proof marks, PV (with the lion), etc. Jan 18, 2021 · The shotgun was made around the 1920's Belgian, and French proof marked. Has Jim Fisher on the side of the receiver. Makers - Darne, Merkel, Arrieta, Beretta, Browning, Holland, Purdey, Richards, Bernardelli, Parker, Fox, LC Smith, and most other double barreled shotgun, gun and double rifle makers. Check the proof marks to see if they are English or Belgian. 4 days ago · Belgium, country of northwestern Europe. The ELG over crown in a cartouche is the BP proof mark stamp - EPL = Épreuve Liége for muzzle loading BP arms. lays down common rules and regulations for the proof of weapons and their ammunition in order to ensure the mutual recognition of Proof Marks by its member states. It includes information on controllers' codes and Belgian date codes, which indicate the year of manufacture. The crown over the PV is a Belgian proof mark from the Liege proof house. Jun 6, 2010 · This is an interesting set of Liege proof marks. Fjestad. Feb 6, 2021 · Yes, appears to be Belgian. May 1, 2014 · Belgian proof marks consist of the letters "ELG" in an oval with possibly a crown over that while an English proof is crossed scepters or crossed halberds (spear/battle axe) with letters in the intersections and a crown on top. V"; a star over the letters "AV" (?); a lower-case script "e"; and a large stylized "C" encircling 12-65. Nov 20, 2016 · I bought a Belgium Guild SxS hammer gun for a winter project. Oct 20, 2023 · Belgian is an adjective that denotes something of, relating to, or characteristic of Belgium, especially its people. 70 inside = 12 gauge 70mm chambers ( I read where this mark came into use 1924) Crown with ELG = Belgium proof mark Can't find any reference to age yet. But beyond its mechanical intricacies, a vintage gun <a title="Decoding the Past: A Guide to Old Belgian Gun Makers Marks" class Typical Proof Marks of Various Countries English (London) English (Birmingham) Belgian Italian German French Austrian Proof - The test-firing of a gun with an extra-heavy load, at an official establishment, to verify the safety of a gun, which is then marked with formal stamps showing, among other things, the loads for which it is intended. 87#. e. Richards company and has Birmingham proofs on it. Mar 27, 2023 · Yes, it's Belgian, pre-1891/2. The crown B mark means it was a foreign import, most likely from Belgium. No actual makers name stamped. on right side- Made in Belgium Receiver has Belgian PV proof mark below the ejection port. The marks were repeated, this list is incomplete, and the significance of some were lost to a fire at the Proof House Jun 1, 2021 · You will be able to see enlarged gun proof marks, stamps, crests and codes and then find the exact name of that proof house or gun maker and city and country where they came from. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below Download scientific diagram | Belgian proof marks observed on barrels of S01 shotgun from publication: Determination of Manufacturing Date of Confiscated Shotguns-A Case Report | A forensic case Mar 12, 2023 · BELGIAN SIDE BY SIDE TOP LEVER SPRING ASSISTED OPENER . Manufacturers voluntarily proof their firearms with a specifed style of proofmark. Trying to figure out all of the markings on this old double barrel that belonged to my granddad. In 1914 the Director of the Proof House at Liege, Mr. I haven't seen any responses on the age, and a gun dealer I had look at it told me the proof Jul 28, 2023 · This is the dedicated cast bullet forum!Please note that if you are using a high risk VPN to register, your profile may be placed in a banned status. 4/192 and Choke 17. Member States. Has some markings on the bottom of the barrels. Feb 4, 2023 · Hallowell & Co. By the way--are you by chance in Canada? A gun very similar to this was for sale a couple of weeks ago. I cannot see any chamber proof but a 2 9/16" chamber (B) THE Gun Barrel Proof Act 1978 amended the Principal Act in certain material respects. There don't seem to be any other identifying marks on this gun. and Spain. Occupied by Germany during both world wars, it experienced an economic boom in the post-war years to New Belgian international branding campaign highlights openness to innovation The new Belgian international branding campaign centres around “Embracing Openness”. Amongst other things Section 5 provides that in Rules, Regulations and Scales of Proof made or altered under Section 117 of the Principal Act measurements (whether length, area, volume, mass or weight) may be expressed in imperial or in metric units, where internationally recognised. Almost every pistol or rifle has these markings, but product manuals rarely cover what they mean. I agree with SuperX about Belgian guns shipped to the US, most were cheap guns that are not worth messing with. Feb 4, 2023 · I have just come across a Belgium made side by side shotgun. I was hoping I could get some help with the specifics of identifying this Percussion Cap Double-Barreled Shotgun - pictures attached. 4 days ago · Visit the Definitions and Notes page to view a description of each topic. to Proof portable firearms to establish uniform rules for the Proofing of firearms and ammunition to assure mutual recognition of the Proof marks of the countries which signed this convention. It's a B26 from 1976. 2, in which case it's a very tight 16g. This guide delves into the world of old Belgian gun makers' marks, providing valuable information for collectors and enthusiasts. Even though gun makers in Belgian could produce high quality firearms, their export market specialized in low quality, inexpensive guns. Although it does have some engraving of a sort, it looks as if it was made for a colonial market. After the 1891 revisions it was applied to all firearms. From what I see, it does look Euro in nature, and a bit unique! It looks like the entire barrel is removed from the action to load which would certainly be cumbersome unless you have three or more hands. Typical Proof Marks of Various Countries English (London) English (Birmingham) Belgian Italian German French Austrian Proof - The test-firing of a gun with an extra-heavy load, at an official establishment, to verify the safety of a gun, which is then marked with formal stamps showing, among other things, the loads for which it is intended. Amongst proof marks are codes enabling one to determine the date of manufacture of many guns. The document serves as a reference for understanding the proof marking system used in Belgium for firearms and barrels. 849 Kg at the time of proof = 1. 4 (perhaps original bore diameter?), a Belgian provisional proof mark Dec 15, 2021 · There is your answer above - it's Belgian. Belgian chocolates, waffles, and beer are renowned around the world. More tomorrow and with pics. In 1899 alone, the U. It might be 16. Jan 17, 2025 · But, typically there should be a makers mark on the lock plate in addition to the Liege proof marks on the barrel. Since the U. Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. Jan 10, 2022 · Well done with the proof mark interpretation, and I have no explanation for the absence of a lettre annale as the gun carries a full set of Belgian definitive proof marks, and has no evidence of reproof. BELGIAN DATE CODESBELGIAN DATE CODES CURSIVE Controller of Proof Codes Aug 25, 2024 · I know that the current mark for the barrel bore and the chamber length is, say, '12-70' for a 12 bore with a 70mm chamber which is enclosed in an open oval with 'barbed' ends. Since your gun is a percussion with a back-action lock I don't believe it could have been built any earlier than the 1840's. Proof marks – Belgium The principality of Liege was annexed in 1795 by the French Republic after the revolution of 1789. Initially, Belgium had a unitary form of government. FWIW, there are untold numbers of unmarked (excepting for proofs, of course) Belgian guns, since there are very few makers Jan 28, 2022 · Evening! Proof marks are tiny on my Browning - trying to understand them and know if it's Ok to put steel shot through it. Understanding these proof marks Need help identifying an older shotgun barrel my friend owns. Richards (not Westley Richards) was an English gunmaker. Looking at the proof marks I think I can identify a Birmingham proof mark on the barrel under the handguard. S. It is one of the smallest and most densely populated European countries, and it has been, since its independence in 1830, a representative democracy headed by a hereditary constitutional monarch. . Know it was made in Belgium and it has the black powder proof mark (only symbol) i have been able to figure out. net Jun 28, 2019 · When they were made, all British guns had to be subjected to proof testing (they still are) to ensure that they were fit for purpose. 17mm does correspond with 16ga. If the water table has a controller's mark, the M under a crown, then it predates 1877 and post dates 1853. Identifying the maker of an antique Belgian gun often involves deciphering its proof marks and other markings. RICHARDS & Co," Damascus barrel marked "LAMINATED STEEL," with Liege proof marks under the barrel. Apr 14, 2009 · Hi Skip, wow after looking at all those Belgium proof marks I am going to take pictures of my 410 s/s and have you help me to find out who made it. The odd-looking curlicues are an intertwined E and L - ÉPREUVE LIÉGE - Liége Proof House. It was a proof for black powder rifles. Safety and Regulation Dec 16, 2024 · Muzzle loading guns never had the crown over the ELG oval, that is on cartridge guns since 1893 to denote compliance with Germany's new (in 1892) proof laws. Sep 16, 2010 · Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. Feb 11, 2024 · A Flourishing Industry: The Historical Backdrop of Belgian Gun Making The Rise of Belgian Gun Making The glint of steel, the subtle curve of wood, the weight of history in your hands – there’s a unique thrill in holding a firearm that speaks of a bygone era. Jan 12, 2022 · Hello all! Just joined the site here. On the top of the barrels there is name- Jan 5, 2011 · Since the German proof testing standard was so similar to the English standard, the German authorities automatically approved any firearms with English proof marks with no further testing, but rejected any firearms with Belgian proof marks until they were re-proven in Germany. Any help would be greatly appreciated! W. My question is the choke, nowhere on the barrel is it noted what the choke is. I also tried a 20 gauge shell, it was Apr 3, 2025 · Why would this gun have Belgian Proof Marks? It is a Winchester Model 1905 32 Self Loader built in 1907. I assume this is for guns made in Belgium, since a common Belgian proof mark is the same ELG and Star in an oval, only with a crown on top of the oval. Additional to the various crowns and letters, Belgian proof includes a representation of the 'Perron' a famous landmark in Liége, and the oval cartouche containing the letters ELG and a star. Feb 28, 2024 · Controller's (inspector's) mark, which can not be used to date a Belgian gun. P. 2 - if it IS 18 - is the calibre in mm - in this case, it's 12g. The mark after the choke is a stylized EL and is the Belgium acceptance mark. Also a picture of the complete gun would be useful. Top Feb 15, 2025 · Finding the maker's mark on an old Belgian firearm can unlock a fascinating history. Oct 24, 2021 · Q. Dec 10, 2022 · Anyone recognize this manufacturers mark?Is this it? Hard to make out when I enlarge the picture from this website but here's the description. 724" Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. A gentle cleaning and oiling to keep it from deteriorating further and a home above the mantle piece is the best course of action. Serial number is 05348. Jul 18, 2023 · Belgium is famous for its food, beer, and divine chocolate. On the string of PROOF MARKS - Comparing the proof marks on your gun to this chart may help you determine where and when your gun was made, including guns where no other markings are evident. It bears Birmingham proof marks from the time period 1813 to 1855 unless there are other proof marks not shown. On the left side of the barrel, it clearly says: cart. I have this feeling that I can't shake off that the 410 may not actually say 410 but has some form of abbreviation perha Nov 30, 2020 · Final proof is the crowned ELG mark. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. How do I tell if an old or new shotgun has been “proofed”? My Italian guns seem to be covered with proofmarks—as do a couple old Belgian guns I have—but my American guns don’t seem to Sep 16, 2014 · Pre-1850 European firearms oftentimes do not exhibit any commercial proof marks and, with the exception of an occasional barrel address, they represent the single hardest category of firearms one can research properly. This is my first post so please excuse my lack of knowledge of this site. itk ubqrre whcbwfgm ywnhzhq ebko jdel wbyc byokq zdai msmh